Interviewed by Liza Gabriel
Catskill Fungi, founded by John Michelotti, is based in Ulster County, NY, on unceded Mohican Land near Shandaken and Pinehill Hamlets. I caught up with John between mushroom outings and leaving for the annual Telluride Mushroom Festival. John has been into fungi for 12 years. He leads walks in the woods and provides an extensive overview of fungi in the forest. People don’t realize it usually, but mycelia (the ‘roots’ of fungi) are under every inch of our feet throughout the forest, and spores (the ‘seeds’ of fungi) are in every breath we take. He would notice how taking people into the woods would open up their world and interest in fungi. Quickly, he was being leaned on as a resource, and John realized his natural role in helping people learn how to properly ID mushrooms and how important this is, so he started teaching mushroom events.
While there are incredible edible mushrooms out there, there are also deadly ones that can make you sick, and foragers must know how to decipher the difference. John would hear from chefs that they bought mushrooms from trusted people, “but then customers were getting sick from them,” he said. “Forages would sell Jack 0’lanterns mushrooms to co-ops saying they were chanterelles, yet, while they’re both bright orange, they’re different species, and one can make you sick!” John saw mushroom certification and education as an opportunity. Throughout his time cultivating his company Catskill Fungi, which leads walks and makes an array of mushroom extracts and medicinal products, he taught the Wild Mushrooms Food Safety Certification Course for Mushroom Mountain, was a volunteer identification consultant for the North American Mycological Association, has helped to form the mushroom toxicology committee for the NYC Poison Control Center.
Read more about Catskill Fungi at catskillfungi.com/ and follow the resources below.
TNF: Briefly tell us about your business.
John Michelotti: Catskill Fungi started in 2014. We started selling at a farmers market in 2015. Because of a community need, I was cultivating mushrooms, making extracts, and leading people on mushroom walks. At the time, local plant extracts and mushroom extracts were coming from the other side of the country, if they were there at all, and I saw a need for a local product, and people asked for it.
We have a family farm of 100 acres, and the mushrooms for our extracts are grown or foraged from there or wild-crafted from private land in the Catskills that we have permission to use. It’s so important to know the history of any land where you are foraging because mushrooms can hyperaccumulate toxins. Many people aren’t aware of this, and it’s essential. For example, if an apple orchard has been sprayed within the last 100 years and you harvest morels from it, you may be poisoned by the toxins from those sprays. Of course, it depends on the toxicity and how long the land was sprayed.
This hyperaccumulation is also an incredible trait of mushrooms for ecological restoration and mycoremediation. This is being used at a moderate scale to assist with cleaning up heavy metals and oil spills and breaking down trash, among other things, and you can implement mycoremediation even on a small scale on farms. For example, if a tractor leaks, you could put cardboard with mycelia underneath to catch it. Then, add that cardboard to a bin with sawdust, straw, or more cardboard already inoculated with mycelia. The mycelia will excrete enzymes to cleave hydrocarbon bonds and absorb nutrients. Also, the metals in that oil will accumulate, thus removing it from your soil. The mushrooms need to be put into a stable place so they don’t continue contamination.
Back to the business — it’s mostly just me, though I have part-time consultants who help with production or lead mushroom walks. We host various educational events, from 2-hour mushroom walks to cultivation workshops and 3-day Friends of Fungi workshops at Menla Retreat Center in Phoenicia, NY, where we bring multiple instructors to help people deepen their interest in fungi. Our next one is this fall.
Also, my wife, Gabriella D’Elia, helps with these 3-day retreats and has created her deep-imagination mushroom walks, which explore the sensorial, emotional, and spiritual aspects of connecting with fungi. She’s the Director of the Fungal Diversity Survey (fundis.org), which protects biodiversity through the conservation of fungi through educational efforts, community science, and partnerships. So we’re both mushroom geeks.
TNF: How did you first get interested in fungi and mushroom farming?
John: Ten years ago, people thought mushrooms were weird, but the public view has shifted. People are much more curious now. Their knowledge has broadened. Mushrooms - more than the white button mushroom on pizza - have become something people want to eat, for many, forage, and for some, produce. Mushrooms are an excellent way for farmers to extend their season, and it’s helpful that the best time to inoculate is during the off-season. Some people call it the Fantastic Fungi effect. That movie did a lot for mushrooms - so did Entangled Life and Michael Pollen’s book, How to Change Your Mind. Also, mycotechnology and chefs are highlighting mushrooms more. There’s even art and fashion incorporating mushrooms. Of course, they’re delicious and one of the most nutritious foods one can eat (they’re low in fat, high in fiber food, and have vitamins, minerals, and polysaccharides that help with immune modulation.
Many serial entrepreneurs are getting into mushrooms. This has its challenges, of course, because there are many issues arising from the many corporations excited to sell fungi with little understanding of or consideration for these organisms, but that will have to be another article.
The deeper you look, the more there is to see. I became fascinated with what they offer to the world and how we can help each other grow a healthier planet. I'm excited to share the correct information about these exceptional beings with people in hopes that they are inspired to learn from them, too.
TNF: Mushrooms are unique because while they have so many beneficial qualities, they can make people sick or even die if they aren’t ID’d correctly. How do you approach this in your work?
John: Foraging has been a part of my life for many years. The only way to do so safely is with the right knowledge. I help as a volunteer identification consultant for the North American Mycological Association (NAMA) to help identify specimens from people who have mushroom poisonings. In July 2022, I identified a mushroom for the NYC Poison Control Center (NYCPCC), and they asked if they could list me as their official mycologist. I ended up creating a team of us from NAMA members in NJ and NY: myself, Tim Baroni, Sigrid Jakob, and Kathie Hodge. We all help respond to mushroom poisonings when needed. During the mushroom season, I get about 2-4 texts/emails per month regarding people or animals who have eaten random mushrooms.
Carl Whittaker, an artist and forager from the Ithaca area, was stopped and told he needed to be certified by the Board of Health to sell. Professors that knew him as a long-time forager at Cornell vouched for him in a letter to appease the Board of Health because, at the time, there was no way to get certified.
Around 2019, Mushroom Mountain, managed at the time by Olga and Tradd Cotter, was the only company that certified people to sell foraged mushrooms. I reached out to them because I saw the importance to have the Wild Mushroom Food Safety Certification course taught in New York. By that time, I had heard of a few incidents of people getting sick from mushrooms they bought in the grocery store or ate at a restaurant. I taught this course for a while and connected with Steve Gabriel, from Wellspring Forest Farm and formerly the Cornell Small Farms Program, to work with the Board of Health of NYS. We were making headway before things slowed down when Covid hit.
The courses, now available to people in South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia, Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York, and Rhode Island, certify foragers with a five-year permit. The law in these states says that “wild foraged mushroom species must be individually inspected and found to be safe by an approved mushroom identification expert.”
In 2011, Maine established a Maine Wild Mushroom Harvesting Certification Program and Advisory Committee through an act of its legislature. This is a great model for other states because some states have far too lenient requirements or certifications, such as Alabama, which is entirely online and says, "no prior experience necessary." In my experience, getting to know mushrooms takes more time then just one weekend online. In my experience, it takes the time to encounter mushrooms firsthand in the forest before you can be certain of them and their lookalikes.
Certifications are not perfect, either. Most chefs don’t even know they exist, so they won’t know to buy from a certified forager. Certifications cost money. The cost is somewhat reasonable since the permit lasts five years, but it ranges from $300 to $400.
TNF: You’ve spoken to the safety concerns. Are there concerns about overharvesting? I remember reading an article about wild leeks and how an increased popularity in foraging has caused tremendous damage to the species.
John: There was a study about how picking mushrooms can help reproduction as you help to spread spores through the forest when you walk with mushrooms in baskets, but there’s also a tipping point for some mushrooms if too much is picked. Some certification programs get into this, and others don’t. And there’s no regulation on private lands, of course, and only some on public lands. For example, in State Parks and Heritage Preserves, it is illegal to harvest anything. In National Forests and public parks like the Catskills, it's legal to pick "for personal consumption" only. This is taught in courses, too, and how far from the road or a trail you must be to harvest.
It’s essential to understand that millions of organisms depend on these fungi species. I like to use a general 50% rule - leave more than half of what I find. This is because these fungi are not just essential for people but for many other organisms as well. With Chaga (Inonotus obliquus), which grows very slowly - about a few centimeters per year, I harvest less than 10% of what I find, and I have plenty for my business. If you’re supporting your local community, it can work. Those provided to a region or selling nationwide, should cultivate their mushrooms as it would put too much pressure on the forest to support this amount of harvesting. With forage Chaga, I am not a fan of single-use products that contain chaga that is only being used one time. Chaga can be strained in tea again and again. And after that it can be made into a tincture. After that it can be made into a soap scrub/exfoliant. A little bit goes a long way. This is one of the mushrooms discussed in the certification course. We discuss how the mushroom serves the ecology of the ecosystems and can impact generations to come.
TNF: We know that land access is the biggest challenge new and young farmers face today, especially first-generation farmers. Do you think mushrooms are a viable business option for new farmers, mainly because you don’t have to purchase land to forage them?
John: Mushrooms are a great supplemental income for farmers, especially if you don’t own your land, because you can gain access to land for foraging. If you’re already going to the farmers market, mushrooms can bulk your sales nicely and attract people to your stand. I don't think starting a mushroom business based only on foraging is likely economical, though. The forest is not a factory, and it won’t pump out mushrooms to meet all your needs when you need them. You could make some value-added products, such as cooking and freezing, dehydrated products, etc. If you diversify your foraging into plants, maybe harvesting medicinal invasives, then you could have some potential to have a positive impact on the environment while meeting human needs.
Selling within your community is best because the consumer can know their farmer. There are a lot of different products out there - single or double extracted, indoor or outdoor, etc. How a mushroom is processed dictates how much mushroom (and thus medicine) is in the product. If you can’t talk to the person making it, there’s no way you can know. It’s the same as your veggies. Know your farmer. Know your food. Know your medicine.
TNF: What has been your biggest challenge in your work and why?
John: There are so many challenges and mistakes. Something specifically relevant is that what we know about fungi is ever-changing. It’s expected there are 2 to 10 million fungi species on the planet and scientists have described less than 5% of them so we’re always learning new things. People have always said to cook mushrooms before eating them because cooking them breaks down the chitin (yes, even the ones you get in a salad are not supposed to be eaten raw). Yet, I recently read an article in Fungi Magazine that said some chitin is good for you and your immune system.
TNF: The Natural Farmer is a public voice for NOFA. How can TNF or NOFA help your work?
John: Sharing about what resources are available and helping your members understand laws and regulations for becoming a forager. NOFA could host some introductory mushroom workshops to help people gain background knowledge before certification. I’ve seen more and more mushroom presentations integrated into the conference. It was great to see Michael Phillips keynote at a NOFA conference years ago, speaking about his book “Mycorrhizal Planet” shedding light on how we can grow our plants with fungi to improve the soil and store carbon.
TNF: What two books/blogs/podcasts/resources do you suggest people read about farming or land use?
For mushroom identification, my 2 favorites are “The National Audubon Society Field Guide to Mushrooms” by Gary Lincoff and “The Peterson Field Guide to Mushrooms of North America, Second Edition” by Karl, Joseph, Kirsten, and Kent McKnight. Fungi Magazine explores the science and poetry of fungi and is worth checking out. The North American Mycological Association can help you find local mushroom clubs and see what poison issues have come up in your region. I really like the Mushroom Revival Podcast and Welcome to the Mushroom Hour Podcast.
Resources:
Catskill Fungi
Fungi Magazine
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